The Riding Gravel Forum

Carbon or Aluminum? - 2020 Giant Revolt Bikes
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Member 23 posts spencegill Member 23 posts
spencegill
Hey gang,
 
Thanks again for your help with my last post. It helped me narrow down my bike choice to the 2020 Giant Revolt Advanced 2. However, yesterday Giant announced they’re releasing an Aluminum version for the 2020 season which looks very intriguing as well.
 
I’m wondering if you guys think I should go with the Carbon model over the Aluminum one. I do worry about the Carbon getting damaged, or at least I wouldn’t feel as bad if the Aluminum did. The price difference is roughly $700 (Canadian) price difference, but includes a Carbon frame and Carbon seatpost, where as the Aluminum also has an aluminum seat post.
 
This is a bike I will be commuting with, but also taking for long rides on both road and gravel. The Carbon model is not out of my budget, but purchasing the Aluminum model would give me more of a budget for upgrades.
 
To sum up, here are the two bikes I’m trying to decide between. 

2020 Revolt 0 - $2199.00 CAD
Aluminum frame and seat post, carbon fork. Full 105 groupset
 
MY20-Revolt-0_Color-A.jpg 
Revolt Advanced 2 - $2899.00 CAD
Carbon frame and seat post, carbon fork. Full 105 groupset
MY20RevoltADV2_ColorBb.jpg
Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
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chas Senior Member 1,305 posts
chas
Ya gotta ride them.  We can all generalize about carbon vs aluminum, but ya gotta get your butt in a saddle.   Nothing at all wrong with aluminum.  If you have the extra cash, and the frame is well designed, Carbon can be made to be stiff in the right areas and compliant in the right areas.  But it depends on how the frame is designed.

Carbon isn't particularly fragile.  I have a 25 year old carbon frame that once flew off my car at 80mph.  Ruined the wheel and the front fork (rockshock), but everything else was fine on it.    The only thing I do to baby carbon is to protect from abrasion (i.e. don't put it on a rear bike carrier on my car, unless it is mounted in a way it won't rub against the bike next to it).  
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
Assuming the paint job on the AL bike is good, Id get it and not give carbon another thought. Hydroformed AL is as good as carbon in terms of ride quality.

Do however look at the details - cable routing (esp near bottom bracket), mounts, seat post options. D-shaped posts and mast posts are pretty restrictive if you have a fit issue or want a soft riding post - though D shaped posts are pretty good.
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MIFAT Member 32 posts
MIFAT
Yesterday I dropped off my aluminum Bianchi Impulso Allroad to be stripped and have the components installed on a new Warbird v4. Stiffness and compliance differences between the two were almost imperceptible to me. I am making the change to be able to run 650b not for ride quality. 

I was able to ride the giant, the rlt rdo, and the warbird back to back. I will tell you the giant was very cushy. So much so that I felt like it would have to fatigue over time. I really liked it but the flex in the frame and that proprietary seat post turned me off. Also no framset  option.

You really need to ride them or you will always question it. 
2019 Salsa Warbird
Force 1 42 x11-40
Easton ARC 24 on DT350 hubs
WTB Resolute 42 tires
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Volsung Senior Member 878 posts
Volsung
OP- WHY ARE YOU WHISPERING

I don't like the idea of proprietary parts either, but that seatpost works.  Also, it'll never be crooked.
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epzamora Senior Member 114 posts
epzamora
Here in the States, Giant appears to only offer the all-aluminum 2020 Revolt as a 2, in aluminum/carbon fork, at exactly $1,000 ($1,317 CAD). I'm really digging the two color options, though they're only Sora.GiantUSA.jpg
eric/fresno, ca.
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spencegill Member 23 posts
spencegill

chas wrote:
Ya gotta ride them.  We can all generalize about carbon vs aluminum, but ya gotta get your butt in a saddle.   Nothing at all wrong with aluminum.  If you have the extra cash, and the frame is well designed, Carbon can be made to be stiff in the right areas and compliant in the right areas.  But it depends on how the frame is designed.

Carbon isn't particularly fragile.  I have a 25 year old carbon frame that once flew off my car at 80mph.  Ruined the wheel and the front fork (rockshock), but everything else was fine on it.    The only thing I do to baby carbon is to protect from abrasion (i.e. don't put it on a rear bike carrier on my car, unless it is mounted in a way it won't rub against the bike next to it).  


I've ridden the Carbon. The aluminum model won't be available until next spring and I'd like to preorder to get the 10% discount.

Good to know about the Carbon durability. Was not expecting it to be able to take the fall off of a car rack haha!

jfranci3 wrote:
Assuming the paint job on the AL bike is good, Id get it and not give carbon another thought. Hydroformed AL is as good as carbon in terms of ride quality.

Do however look at the details - cable routing (esp near bottom bracket), mounts, seat post options. D-shaped posts and mast posts are pretty restrictive if you have a fit issue or want a soft riding post - though D shaped posts are pretty good.


The Carbon bike also comes with a Cabon seat post, which for me is pretty huge. The look of the Carbon frame is also much more appealing. I’d need more convincing to go Aluminum besides “I’d get it” haha

 

MIFAT wrote:
Yesterday I dropped off my aluminum Bianchi Impulso Allroad to be stripped and have the components installed on a new Warbird v4. Stiffness and compliance differences between the two were almost imperceptible to me. I am making the change to be able to run 650b not for ride quality. 

I was able to ride the giant, the rlt rdo, and the warbird back to back. I will tell you the giant was very cushy. So much so that I felt like it would have to fatigue over time. I really liked it but the flex in the frame and that proprietary seat post turned me off. Also no framset  option.

You really need to ride them or you will always question it. 


I've ridden the Carbon. The aluminum model won't be available until next spring but I gotta order it soon!

I’ve found it to be very cushy as well but coming from a MTB, that’s something I’m hoping for. I found the frame also fit me perfectly compared to the others (Checkpoint, Hatchet, Topstone, Search XR etc.) What do you mean about "no frameset options”?

Volsung wrote:
OP- WHY ARE YOU WHISPERING

I don't like the idea of proprietary parts either, but that seatpost works.  Also, it'll never be crooked.

What do you mean “it'll never be crooked.”?

epzamora wrote:
Here in the States, Giant appears to only offer the all-aluminum 2020 Revolt as a 2, in aluminum/carbon fork, at exactly $1,000 ($1,317 CAD). I'm really digging the two color options, though they're only Sora.
eric/fresno, ca.


Dang you guys got screwed! We have 3 models available in Canada, with Sora, Tiagra and 105 group sets. Not a big fan of the white on the 105 model but the black looks awesome on the Tiagra model. For me 105 is the lowest I’ll wanna go as far as components though.
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epzamora Senior Member 114 posts
epzamora
spencegill wrote:


-What do you mean about "no frameset options”?

-What do you mean “it'll never be crooked.”?

-Dang you guys got screwed!


- I think he means you have to buy the entire bike. You cannot just purchase a frame/fork.

- As for never being crooked, because the seat post is in a D-shape, there's only one way to insert it into the seat tube, unlike a standard round seat post which has infinite positions. Ever have the nose of your saddle slightly off from the top tube, requiring loosening, repositioning, then tightening? You won't have that due to the D-shape of the post.

- getting screwed.... ðŸ˜‚  

-eric/fresno, ca.
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spencegill Member 23 posts
spencegill
epzamora wrote:

- getting screwed.... ÃƒÂ°Ã…¸Ëœâ€š  .


We Canadian's always get screwed! You guys have way more options for the Carbon models 😜
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MIFAT Member 32 posts
MIFAT
Yep, no frame only options
2019 Salsa Warbird
Force 1 42 x11-40
Easton ARC 24 on DT350 hubs
WTB Resolute 42 tires
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zen_ Senior Member 110 posts
zen_
Very curious about the 2020 alloy Revolt as well to replace the ancient dropped steel MTB I have been riding. LBS had just got a few in earlier this week, and was in the process of setting them up:

IMG_20190915_142547.jpg 
The questions and observations I have (for the alloy Revolt) based on the specs, looking at some reviews of the carbon Revolt, and test riding the carbon Revolt:

1. The cable actuated hydraulic brakes were disappointing. Not much better than the Tektro cyclocross cantis on my current bike. I hope that's just a pad bed in / setup issue. This system also kinda clutters up the center of your cockpit.

2. The alloy bike has a heavy looking crank with a square taper BB. Probably good for long term ease of maintenance and no creaking though, and it's nice that they used a 48/32. 

3. A few people have commented that the OE tires don't hold air very well overnight, and are heavy.

Hopefully I can test ride the alloy bike next week. Just seems like you get so much for $1K (hydraulic brakes, tubeless, high grade alloy), and Giant actually put some thought into the gearing and parts rather than just slapping some stuff on there like most entry level gravel bikes.
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
Brakes- brakes are only supposed to brake so much. The tires do the stopping.  The brakes operate within the tires range. The difference between good brakes and bad brakes is how easily you can get what you want out of them.  
The brand new disc pads probably weren’t bedded in yet. Having said that, discs are only better than rim brakes in the wet, mud, and handling different tire sizes. The Giant cable-hydro system is probably good, but it is stupid and an eyesore. I’d avoid it.  

crank- that’s probably a decent crank, but it takes nonstandard, FSA only rings. FSA makes not-good rings. In this space, you’ll want to occasionally change gearing. For about $100-150 you can just swap that part out though. 
It looks like it uses an FSA MegaExo pressfit, which is just a common BB86 Shimano size. 

Tires - OE tires usually suck. You’re never getting a 120tpi G-One All Around. At best, you get the 60tpi version. That’s how they make the $5000 bike faster than the $1500 one. 
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spencegill Member 23 posts
spencegill
zen_ wrote:


1. The cable actuated hydraulic brakes were disappointing. Not much better than the Tektro cyclocross cantis on my current bike. I hope that's just a pad bed in / setup issue. This system also kinda clutters up the center of your cockpit.

2. The alloy bike has a heavy looking crank with a square taper BB. Probably good for long term ease of maintenance and no creaking though, and it's nice that they used a 48/32. 

3. A few people have commented that the OE tires don't hold air very well overnight, and are heavy.

Hopefully I can test ride the alloy bike next week. Just seems like you get so much for $1K (hydraulic brakes, tubeless, high grade alloy), and Giant actually put some thought into the gearing and parts rather than just slapping some stuff on there like most entry level gravel bikes.


Personally, I would only get the Revolt 0, and not the 1 or 2, as I can't go any lower grade of groupset than 105, and both the Advanced 2 and Aluminum 0 come with full hydrolic 105 brakes so I don't need to worry about that silly braking system taking up my cockpit.

As far as the crank, the Aluminum Revolt 0 comes witth the same cranks as the Advanced models. FSA are horrible and that would also keep me from buying the 1 or 2. I've had horrible experience with their cranksets in the past and refuse to support that company.

Now if you're planning on converting to a 1x system (which I may do in the future with GRX components) then most of this doesn't really matter anyways.

Let me know your thoughts and what you decide, as I have another friend looking to get the 1 or 2 aluminum model.
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chas Senior Member 1,305 posts
chas
For my money, mechanical disks or rim is a tossup (assuming good wheels and good brake components).

But hydraulic brakes are addictive.  They allow such good modulation.  Its hard to go back to a cable after having something that nice.
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
The AL Sora bike is cheap that it might be worth buying and rebuilding. $75 for the seat post and $500 (USD) for the 105 shifters, brakes, crank, and RD.  Depending on where you're located  (not all versions offered everywhere) $1000 for the Sora vs $1500 for the 105 is something to really think about. Stepping up to the Advanced line in 105  over the Alloy 105 is a jump in price ($600ish) that you'd be served buying accessories and crap.


If I did one of the less-than-105 bike, even on a budget, I'd swap the post and brakes out. I'd put the $75 composite post and $100 on normal mechanical discs on there. 
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zen_ Senior Member 110 posts
zen_
Guess I should read a little better; didn't realize that there is an alloy 0 and 1 model available in Canada, while the US only has the base 2 model available now. The alloy 0 with 105 hydraulic brakes and a Praxis crank looks really nice.

Will have to look into the conduct brake system more to see if it can be setup better, or is just junk.
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
it's probably great. Just looks like junk, takes up space, and Tiagra hydro would have probably cost them the same money . I think they save Giant money on the production line because they only need to have one Shimano Sora/Tiagra shifter in the parts bin and the brakes can be pre- bled.
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pkram Member 42 posts
pkram
I have just replaced my cable actuated disc brakes with Shimano hydraulics, perhaps it's just anecdotal but I never managed to get any proper braking performance out of them (Tektro Lyra, flat mount callipers).  I also agree with some of the remarks on quality of the FSA crankset.
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E-man Starter 12 posts
E-man
Anyone have any opinions/riding time on one of the new Felt Breed bikes?

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/breed/products/breed-30-gravel-road-bike?variant=18311193821302
Breed.jpg 

This bike checks all my boxes on paper but I cannot find hardly any professional reviews or videos on it. 

My goal is to have this be a racing gravel bike for the really rough stuff and also be a bad-weather and winter bike on the road and on the trails...maybe I am asking too much? 

Thank you for your help!
 
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
What could be wrong about that bike?  Unless you want to get the bars super low (stack is 30mm high vs crit/rr bike) or tackle proper mtb stuff (road bb height), it’ll work fine. You’ll need a 2nd set of 700c wheels if you want to put smaller tires on it. 

Felt makes a good product, it’s got a hydroformed AL frame (likely won’t be unforgivingly stiff), and a threaded BB (less prone to squeaking). Aside from a few outliers, all the bikes are going to ride the same with respect to the general bike, the skill in the reviews is finding ways to make them sound different. 
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E-man Starter 12 posts
E-man
Thanks for your feedback. I have read a lot of reviews on other bikes and was half thinking what you just said about those reviewers.

My opinion on this bike that it wouldn’t look out of place at a gravel race, would you agree?

I just want to make sure I’m not getting this confused with more of the touring side of riding because it’s seems like there can be a lot of crossover between these two.
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epzamora Senior Member 114 posts
epzamora
That's a cool bike, and had caught my eye at one point. I haven't actually been to a full-on premier gravel race, just gravel rides where there are racers  (chuckling) but i think this would be fine. The Praxis Alba crank is limited to just the 48/32 combo, but it sounds like you're not interested in loading up for bike packing and needing lower gears.

The 2020 Felt Breed 30 has switched to 1x, and comes with the new Shimano GRX group, maybe even more tailored to fast gravel racing.

eric/fresno, ca.
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E-man Starter 12 posts
E-man
Yeah, the 2020 model caught my eye...I don’t understand gear ratios for speed/climbing but I assume a 1x will be better for pure gravel with steep climbs but will be worse for faster speeds on the rd so I would loose versatility...have had experience with 1x gearing?
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
E-man wrote:
Thanks for your feedback. I have read a lot of reviews on other bikes and was half thinking what you just said about those reviewers.

My opinion on this bike that it wouldn’t look out of place at a gravel race, would you agree?

I just want to make sure I’m not getting this confused with more of the touring side of riding because it’s seems like there can be a lot of crossover between these two.


the differences between a racing gravel bike , a racing CX bike, and a touring gravel bike and  a bike packing bike are  ‘exact’ gearing choice, the height of the head tube and how many bottle cage bosses are one it for bags..... and marketing. This would be totally appropriate everywhere outside of a crit or CX course - it’s do both ok at the local level though. 
Your handlebar height is going to be roughly dictated by your saddle height and flexibility. So if you got a “race” bike that was lower in front relative to the length but have regular flexibility, you’d just  end up running more spacers under the stem on a “race” bike. If you normally ride for extended period with your elbows below your hips, go spend some time looking for a bike with a lower stack height relative to reach. Otherwise, you’re better off on the normal bike. This bike is somewhere between a common performance road bike an endurance road bike, but a bit higher in front than a crit/pro bike like the Allez Sprint or Trek H1 fit 

Bikes like the Open Up and 3T explo, which have racy steering on 35c tires, can get a little sketchy on 25c tires. That might be the case here too. Might want to try a set of road wheels/tires in front before buying. 
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zen_ Senior Member 110 posts
zen_
E-man wrote:

I just want to make sure I’m not getting this confused with more of the touring side of riding because it’s seems like there can be a lot of crossover between these two.


The Broam is Felt's more adventure / touring / casual bike. I actually just did a test ride on one of those today and was extremely impressed with it.

If you have to go out of your way to find a Felt dealer I'd say it's at least worth the effort.
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epzamora Senior Member 114 posts
epzamora
E-man wrote:
...have had experience with 1x gearing?


Not on a gravel bike. My hardtail is 1x, but i rarely ride that now. I like the simplicity of 1x, but 2x seems more natural to me with smaller steps between gears. My buddy's 1x Niner has the same low gear as my 2x if i remember correctly.
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E-man Starter 12 posts
E-man
Cool, thanks a lot for your advice.

someone else recommended this Felt cyclocross bike and said it could double as as a gravel bike but I think it’s going to be too stiff and less comfortable because of the geometry and smaller tire clearance.

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/cyclocross/products/f30x-cyclocross-bike-my18?variant=18360377966710

thanks,
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jfranci3 Senior Member 126 posts
jfranci3
E-man wrote:
Cool, thanks a lot for your advice.

someone else recommended this Felt cyclocross bike and said it could double as as a gravel bike but I think it’s going to be too stiff and less comfortable because of the geometry and smaller tire clearance.

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/cyclocross/products/f30x-cyclocross-bike-my18?variant=18360377966710

thanks,



the CX is splitting hairs with a gravel bike, but all the wrong hairs. You’ll lose the extra, bottle space - so no 3hr rides into the unknown. You’ll loose top end gearing, so no spirited road rides. It will ride  worse. The geometry difference is something most can match with a $40 stem change.  You lose a lot of tire space, so a lot slower in mud/sand/rocks. 
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