chas

what I miss about cantilevers:

Easy peasy wheel changes
(Disks require through axle and I need a wrench to get the wheel off, and if I hit the brakes with the wheel off, I have caliper troubles).

Supple front fork.
Given the high hub torque of a disk brake, stiff forks and a through axle are requirements. Bummer.

Ability to use the wheels I've built up over the years.

Just sayin...

best part of disks: Lots of flexibility in which size tire I use on the bike.

Quote 3 0
ridemagnetic
You need a wrench to release your db wheels? Bolt-on? I don't get it. There are a few thru axles out there that make for a faster change than QR. Why would you hit the brakes with the wheel off? Do you not have a piston press? Seems that's user error rather than the part.  
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
Skldmark
This post makes me want to just give a like/👍 and stay anonymous , so I don’t get ridiculed and have to explain myself.
Quote 1 0
ridemagnetic
Ridicule? Sorry if it came off that way, but almost every point in the OP could be argued to the contrary, so if it wasn't me to point it out it would have inevitably been somebody else. Maybe chas could clarify, the questions were directed to him anyway. 
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
GOTA
chas wrote:

 

Ability to use the wheels I've built up over the years.




That's the biggie.  No way around it
Quote 0 0
ljsmith
I've been riding bikes since the 80s and had many a pair of cantis.  Can't say I miss anything about them.
Quote 0 0
ridemagnetic
GOTA wrote:


That's the biggie.  No way around it


You sure about that? So you sell the wheels you're not using anymore and build/buy some new ones.  
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
ridemagnetic
ljsmith wrote:
I've been riding bikes since the 80s and had many a pair of cantis.  Can't say I miss anything about them.


I'm a product of the 80's too. Still ride cantis everyday on the spare parts commuter because I wouldn't miss it if it got stolen.
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
bobknh
I totally understand the love of Canti's - or in my case short pull linear brakes like Pauls Components. After biting the bullet, and upgrading to TA disc wheels on my new custom gravel bike, I've come to the conclusion that disc brakes with TA's are superior to any rim brakes. Yes, they relegate your beautiful old wheel sets to the dust bin, and they may add about a pound or more tp your bike but:
- They allow wheel and frame designers to develop products that can use wider, gravel friendly tires, with lighter, yet stronger rims.
- Disc brakes work much better in wet conditions.
- TA's not only improve the performance of disc brakes, but they also improve the strength and function of frames and forks.
- The wider, lower pressure tires we love for gravel, and have even been proving themselves on pavement, wont work well with our beloved old narrow wheel sets.
As far as your complaint about easy wheel changes, after lawyer tab's have become the rule on forks, I find that I can remove and install TA wheels as fast or faster than I can with QR's. In my case, the use of DT Swiss tool free TA's, eliminates the need to have an Allen key. Also, QR dropouts tend to wear with use, making final wheel alignment with QR'S always a bit chancy. With TA's, wheel alignment is always perfect. 
The bottom line: I share your nostalgia for Canti's; but I also realize that the future belongs to discs and TA's.
Quote 1 0
chas
The thing I don't hear much about disks is how stiff the front forks have to be to withstand all of that torque applied near the axle (instead of near the head tube).  That makes for a stiff ride and a resurgence of all kinds of things from the '80's to soften the ride at the handlebar.

I don't know that I love canti's.  I do love hydraulics though.  

Really, the only benefit of disks for me is the modulation with hydraulics in less than ideal conditions.

(yeah, selling off old wheels to buy new ones gets me back a little of the cost).

Which is better?  small improvements in performance at the limit of ability, or simplicity?   Sometimes I want to ride the latest technology, sometimes I just want to ride fixed gear.  ;-)
Quote 0 0
chas
bobknh wrote:

As far as your complaint about easy wheel changes, after lawyer tab's have become the rule on forks, I find that I can remove and install TA wheels as fast or faster than I can with QR's. In my case, the use of DT Swiss tool free TA's, eliminates the need to have an Allen key. 


Silly question, but how to I get my DT swiss front wheel off without a wrench (DT spline 1600 100x12)?  Some kind of tool or through axle I can buy to make this possible?



Quote 0 0
ridemagnetic
chas wrote:
The thing I don't hear much about disks is how stiff the front forks have to be to withstand all of that torque applied near the axle (instead of near the head tube).  That makes for a stiff ride and a resurgence of all kinds of things from the '80's to soften the ride at the handlebar.


The reinforcements to disc forks don't make for a stiff ride, it's the brand and the varying construction methods. Some forks are much stiffer than others. You probably don't hear about it much because for the most part it's really not an issue. 

Quote:
I don't know that I love canti's.  I do love hydraulics though.


Yet you started this love letter thread to cantis? Seems you're still in love with your ex.    

Quote:
Really, the only benefit of disks for me is the modulation with hydraulics in less than ideal conditions.


Apparently you forgot that you said this:
"best part of disks: Lots of flexibility in which size tire I use on the bike."

Seems your story changed in the last couple days. Of course, the most important aspect of disc over rim brakes has always been performance. Tire and wheel size compatibility is dependent on the frame and is a secondary benefit.  

Also, you stated that thru axles are a requirement for disc brakes, not once but twice, and another interjected this, which couldn't be further from the truth. There are tons of QR disc bikes on the market. Not only that, but QR disc equipped bikes have seen podium steps of so many gravel races, more than I care to regurgitate. Discs requiring thru axles for gravel bikes is myth.
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
GSPChilliwack
I came to gravel from the mtb side. I hate, hate, hate the QR levers on my Willard.
Quote 0 0
ridemagnetic
Sure, external cam QR's are junk no matter how you cut it. BTW the Willard has been thru axle for the last 3 years. Yours is 2015?    
A great set of wheels will make an average frame ride better. It doesn't work the other way around.  ~ridemagnetic
Quote 0 0
Skldmark
GSPChilliwack wrote:
I came to gravel from the mtb side. I hate, hate, hate the QR levers on my Willard.


Shimano QR skewers are the way to go. They solve a lot of problems (noise,movement) that are totally the fault of lesser OEM skewers. They perform well even with disc brakes if the dropouts are cleaned of excessive paint, etc.
Quote 0 0
GSPChilliwack
ridemagnetic wrote:
Sure, external cam QR's are junk no matter how you cut it. BTW the Willard has been thru axle for the last 3 years. Yours is 2015?    


Yes, 2015. Real workhorse of a bike, but would love to have the TAs.
Quote 0 0
bobknh
chas wrote:


Silly question, but how to I get my DT swiss front wheel off without a wrench (DT spline 1600 100x12)?  Some kind of tool or through axle I can buy to make this possible?




These are what I use: http://www.jensonusa.com/DT-Swiss-RWS-Thru-Axle
You have to find the correct dimensions and threading for your frame and fork. In addition, I needed a drive side nut to install the rear TA. Make sure that your dropouts are compatible. The levers are held into an internal spline, which allows them to be used as a wrench to tighten the TA. Once tight you can pull them off the spline and align them any direction you want. The spring pulls them back in place so they can't move. It took me longer to write this text than install or remove a TA wheel.
Quote 0 0