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benmills
I have a 58cm 2013 Vaya (that I love):

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/archive/2013_vaya

The stack and reach are almost identical to the large Cutthroat:

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/cutthroat/2018_cutthroat_force_1

I don't know if any of the other geometry figures would influence the ride much (e.g. bottom bracket drop, headtube angle, etc.), but the stack and reach say that I would at least be comfortable like I am on the Vaya.

Add to that a 5 pound weight decrease, the flexy seat stays and thru axles and I'm super interested in upgrading to a Cutthroat.

Even, the 1x gearing has a similar range to my Vaya:

http://gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=34,48&RZ=11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,36&UF=2220&TF=85&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&GR2=DERS&KB2=38&RZ2=10,12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36,42&UF2=2220

And that 38T chainring could be swapped out for a 40T to 42T to get even closer.

$4,000 sure is a lot for a bike though.
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ljsmith
benmills wrote:


And that 38T chainring could be swapped out for a 40T to 42T to get even closer.

$4,000 sure is a lot for a bike though.


The Cutthroat cannot use more than a 38T for 1x.  For 2x it can use a 42T.  But with a 10-42 cassette, the 38T is plenty unless you are using it as a road bike also.
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chas
benmills wrote:


I don't know if any of the other geometry figures would influence the ride much (e.g. bottom bracket drop, headtube angle, etc.), but the stack and reach say that I would at least be comfortable like I am on the Vaya.


well, it makes a big difference in handling - especially head tube angle (which directly affects trail).  I find with a slack bike I may be running wide on turns and going off my line (or off the trail)  With a numerically higher head angle, I may worry about the front tire not biting hard enough and washing out in dirt.  

The sharper head angle makes the bike more agile - good for pavement or cross racing.  The slacker head angle makes the bike carve nice turns (not too sharp though) and easier to ride fast down hill in sketchy conditions.

BB drop for me mostly has to do with pedal smack with aggressive lean angles, although a higher BB tends to accelerate with more snap.  
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benmills
ljsmith wrote:


The Cutthroat cannot use more than a 38T for 1x.  For 2x it can use a 42T.  But with a 10-42 cassette, the 38T is plenty unless you are using it as a road bike also.


Out of pure interest, what would stop you putting a 40T on the bike?  I can't see tire clearance being an issue and it doesn't change the capacity needed for the derailleur.  Chain line would be the same (I think).

I'd actually be fine with a 38T.  For me, I'd have the same range as the Vaya, except I'd effectively lose the 48/11 highest gear (which I don't use much for gravel).
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ljsmith
benmills wrote:


Out of pure interest, what would stop you putting a 40T on the bike?  I can't see tire clearance being an issue and it doesn't change the capacity needed for the derailleur.  Chain line would be the same (I think).

.


The larger chainring would probably rub the chainstay.  The 42t fits in a 2x configuration because it sits a little farther out from the frame versus the 1x configuration.
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OTHRider
The larger chainring would probably rub the chainstay.

I agree.  I just enjoyed the last three weekends pedaling a 2017 Cutthroat and there is not much clearance at the chainstay.

My 2 cents - this was the most enjoyable and versatile bike I've ever ridden.  The tire volume and vibration reduction rear end are fantastic.  The Cowchipper bars felt like it was made custom for me. This was my first trial with a 1X and it took me all of five minutes to wonder why I have a 2X (well, I do have a little more of a bailout ratio on my current ride).

I did have one issue that only required a small change in riding style.  The lower bottom bracket led to numerous pedal strikes.  I was riding two trails that I frequent with my MTB and CX rides.  I have never had a pedal strike with either bike on either trail.  Once I started to time my pedal stroke and position all was well.  Definitely not a deal killer though. 

I was also able to put in about 25 road miles.  The larger tires give that sluggish feel on take off, but it comes up to speed quickly (and I was running 18psi F & R).  My times vs the CX were within a minute of each other. 

I have always avoided riding other bikes and now I have come down with a serious case of upgrade-itis.
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sgtrobo
"I just enjoyed the last three weekends pedaling a 2017 Cutthroat ... this was the most enjoyable and versatile bike I've ever ridden. "

bingo.  [smile]
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benmills
Since the Cutthroat is largely a MTB frame, the Q factor is wider (i.e. the pedals are further apart).  Would love to know if people actually notice that in practice.  Or does it feel just like a road bike?

I have a fat bike and the Q factor is enormous on it.  I certainly notice it, but that's at the extreme end of the scale.

I'm getting real close to pulling the trigger and building up a Cutthroat to replace my Vaya!
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OTHRider
I didn't compare the Q between my bikes but I did notice it while pedaling.  My knees were much happier with the Cutthroat.  It certainly didn't seem extreme at all.

I really miss this bike....

20170909_183808.jpg 
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imwjl
benmills wrote:
Since the Cutthroat is largely a MTB frame, the Q factor is wider (i.e. the pedals are further apart).  Would love to know if people actually notice that in practice.  Or does it feel just like a road bike?

I have a fat bike and the Q factor is enormous on it.  I certainly notice it, but that's at the extreme end of the scale.

I'm getting real close to pulling the trigger and building up a Cutthroat to replace my Vaya!


I only do 5+ hour rides on occasion but seem to adjust if it's an epic day with old school, "boost" or fat bike. That's from someone who's aging body is starting to have wear problems.

The Q factor or type of bike is more like adjusting to my wife's vs my car and what I find really important is a bike that just feels and handles well. I'm sure it could be far more important for others.

Sorry to not have any opinion on the bike models. I checked them out while shopping, Vaya the most, but fell in love with a pretty much unused Fargo. I've spent big on plastic frame and fancier parts for my trail bike but am heavy metal for gravel.

[smile]
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NoCoGreg
FWIW, I spend most of my time on bikes with the standard road BB width.  When I switch to my mtb I don't notice a difference in the Q factor.  Even a long day of 80+ mile GG on my Frankenbike conversions (rigid 26'er mtb with drop bars) I can't say I noticed the wider Q factor.  For me the key setup is the saddle height and position of my knee to the pedal.  This is identical on all my bikes.

Cheers,
Greg

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