Zurichman
Ok I have spent the last 3-4 hrs. reading through all the wheel builds to get as much info as I can. Right now I am @ 200 lbs. but figure on getting down to 185. Main reason is to get a lighter wheel set for race day to replace the stock set on my 2017 Raleigh Roker Comp. I also wouldn't be hard on these wheels as I won't be doing mt. bike riding with them and haven't seen too much rough stuff on the gravel rides/races I have been on so far.

rim size I think I want is 20-21 mm internal width. 

Best bang for the buck for me looks like 

Kinlin XR-19W would have 28 spokes front and back.

Other contenders were
H + Son Archetype
DT RR440 
DT R470 I saw oleritter mention these but don't know pricing/internal width/weight

hubs would be DT 350

DT 240 and White Industries T11 looks to be out of my price range.
I saw builds with Bitex and Hope 4's but don't know the price range on them compared to DT 350'S.

Spokes could be
CX race
D lights 
both would be laced 28 F/R

Brass nipples
I saw somebody like wheel smith but I have no knowledge here.

Anybody have any knowledge of these rims or hubs. I use to see oleritter posting on here but maybe he is too busy building wheels at the present.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Volsung
I've heard good things about H plus son Hydras.  Those and some DT 350s would be a pretty bomb proof wheelset that doesn't need to be saved for race day. 


You could make some money back by selling your stock wheelset too.
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Koyote
My next wheelset is in progress -- waiting for the new bike that will go with it. After talking to the folks at the shop, we're going with DT 350 centerlock hubs, DT Competition spokes and brass nipples (32h/3x), and H+ Son The Hydra rims.

NOTE: You mentioned the H+ Son Archetype rims - I believe those are NOT tubeless compatible. You probably want to consider their newer HYDRA rims.  Shop has had good experiences with those rims (owner and one of the mechanics are riding them).

The DT Comp spokes are bombproof and reasonably-priced; the two Sapim spokes you mention are lighter and more expensive, but I question the choice given that (I believe I read this in one of your posts) you are not a skinny little guy.  Brass nips are a solid choice.

I asked about the White Industries hubs, and the shop felt that they only add to cost and offer no gains in performance or reliability over the DT 350s. In fact, should the DT hubs require service, they are easier to deal with - and they are so common that almost any shop will be able to work on them.

I'm going 32h 3x because I value reliability in wheels -- when I think back to the times I've had to call my wife for a ride home, it's usually been due to a wheel failure. (broken spokes x2, broken hub shell x1, and I once had to miss a big race after discovering that my rim was cracking apart.)
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Zurichman
Volsung wrote:
I've heard good things about H plus son Hydras.  Those and some DT 350s would be a pretty bomb proof wheelset that doesn't need to be saved for race day. 


You could make some money back by selling your stock wheelset too.


Thanks for the reply Volsung. The plan is probably using the stock wheel set then as a mud tire set up. If it is muddy out I guess you aren't worrying about weight anyways. I guess I have done something like 12-13 ride/races so far. The Farmer's Daughter in Chatham NY last year was kind of a mud fest for part of the ride. What I do know from that ride is that the Donnley xplor MSO'S don't like mud. They packed up like crazy and since that ride had plenty of macadam they were sling mud for about a 1/4 mile every time we would hit that. That doesn't bother me as much as they didn't have grip/bit in the mud which makes for dangerous riding. The bike also felt like a tank also with all the mud build up in the tires.

Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Zurichman
Koyote wrote:
My next wheelset is in progress -- waiting for the new bike that will go with it. After talking to the folks at the shop, we're going with DT 350 centerlock hubs, DT Competition spokes and brass nipples (32h/3x), and H+ Son The Hydra rims.

NOTE: You mentioned the H+ Son Archetype rims - I believe those are NOT tubeless compatible. You probably want to consider their newer HYDRA rims.  Shop has had good experiences with those rims (owner and one of the mechanics are riding them).

The DT Comp spokes are bombproof and reasonably-priced; the two Sapim spokes you mention are lighter and more expensive, but I question the choice given that (I believe I read this in one of your posts) you are not a skinny little guy.  Brass nips are a solid choice.

I asked about the White Industries hubs, and the shop felt that they only add to cost and offer no gains in performance or reliability over the DT 350s. In fact, should the DT hubs require service, they are easier to deal with - and they are so common that almost any shop will be able to work on them.

I'm going 32h 3x because I value reliability in wheels -- when I think back to the times I've had to call my wife for a ride home, it's usually been due to a wheel failure. (broken spokes x2, broken hub shell x1, and I once had to miss a big race after discovering that my rim was cracking apart.)


Koyote thanks for your reply. I use 2 LBS shops here locally. One shop knows a lot about mt biking and is a mt. biker. When I stop briefly to talk to him yesterday this was his thoughts. He suggested I try and get a set of race wheels in the 1550 - 1650 grams total weight for the pair. He isn't a wheel builder as the other shop I go to a Mennonite shop(they have very few mt. bikers or gravel riders) the owner has been in business probably for over 30 - 35 years. The other shop sends all his clients there to get the wheels built because of his experience and probably because he only has a part time worker and has no time to build wheels. The mt. bike shop mentioned the DT 240 HUBS and even though they are expensive said the same thing your shop did about the DT 350 hubs being able to be service at any shop and easy to be serviced also. He suggested the H + Som Archetype and DT 440 rims but since he doesn't build the wheels and rims and was working on a bike as we were talking he wasn't looking anything up. I wish I knew the difference in weight and cost of the DT 240 and DT 350'S I know the 240's cost around $593 for the pair so that will make the wheel a more expensive start up cost.

At my end no I am not a skinny guy. At 200 lbs I am not the light weight. That being said I have never really had any wheel problems. None so far in 1 1/2 years of gravel riding. On the roadie end I had a Bontrager X lite wheel crack 4-5 places around the nipple but think that was a wheel defect from them. I have since bought another used X lite rear wheel at a shop and have had no problems since with that wheel.

Decisions/decisions. Thanks for the input and yes I will probably go with the DT 350's and the DT comp spokes. Now how many is another tough decision. When I first said something to the wheel builder he was going to build me a really heavy bombproof mt. bike set which I don't need.

Thanks again for the input.
Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Koyote
Zman, you can find the specs on those DT Swiss hubs at their website, but I believe the 240 and 350 hubs use the same internals (bearings, axles, ratchets) and differ only on weight, with the 240 having more of the hubshell material milled away. Even with that, I think the 240s are only about 60 grams lighter than the 350s, depending on the exact models. There are cheaper ways to drop 60 grams from your wheelset, such as those CX-Ray spokes you mentioned, and they would also give you a little aero benefit.

Since weight is not a huge priority for me, I went with the Comp spokes and 32h 3x...But as I wrote, I am conservative with wheels. I probably could've gotten by with 28h rear and 24h front, as I am about 170 lbs. But the difference between 24h and 32h is the difference between walking home and riding home if a spoke breaks...And I don't like walking.

Good luck with it! You are looking at quality parts, so whatever you decide, you will have a nice wheelset.
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clarksonxc
What is your price range?  I'd start by using the DT Swiss website as your baseline.  You might be able to find what you're looking for as an out of the box setup, which is always cheaper than a custom build (though certainly not as cool!)
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Johnnypedals
Hi Zman
I had oleritter build me a set of wheels for my crockett. DT Swiss r470 laced to Bitex hubs. 28 spoke front 32 spoke rear. I believe they are about 1625 grams with the Dt swiss tubeless tape installed. The wheels have been absolutely bombproof. I have abused them to no end and they have stayed perfectly true. I have ridden them on some rocky MTB trails where this bike had no right to be. Ridden them through extremely muddy events (last year's farmers daughter) among other rainy / muddy rides. The hubs have really surprised me. Even through all the mud and constant high pressure hose washing the bearing still spin smooth.
 
 2 things for sure. No matter what you get go with a 32 spoke rear wheel, the extra spokes weigh almost nothing and the added stiffness and security is priceless. Also talk to oleritter. He really is at the top of the wheel builder game. He will walk you through your decision process. I was such a PITA when buying my wheels from him and he never lost his patience with me 🙂 
 JP
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Zurichman
Hi Zman
I had oleritter build me a set of wheels for my crockett. DT Swiss r470 laced to Bitex hubs. 28 spoke front 32 spoke rear. I believe they are about 1625 grams with the Dt swiss tubeless tape installed. The wheels have been absolutely bombproof. I have abused them to no end and they have stayed perfectly true. I have ridden them on some rocky MTB trails where this bike had no right to be. Ridden them through extremely muddy events (last year's farmers daughter) among other rainy / muddy rides. The hubs have really surprised me. Even through all the mud and constant high pressure hose washing the bearing still spin smooth.
 
 2 things for sure. No matter what you get go with a 32 spoke rear wheel, the extra spokes weigh almost nothing and the added stiffness and security is priceless. Also talk to oleritter. He really is at the top of the wheel builder game. He will walk you through your decision process. I was such a PITA when buying my wheels from him and he never lost his patience with me 🙂 
 JP


As I type Johnnypedals I have oleritter building up a custom set of wheels for me. He is really great to work with. My next question. I have only had experience with 2 different brands of tires. Clement(now Donnley) xplor Mso's 700 x 40 and Kenda Flintridge Pro's in 700 x 40.

I am looking for a new set of tires of tires. If it makes any sense I do have a 25% off coupon with Kenda from the Funks gravel race last year. I saw there that are to have a new kind of smooth tire out there. I think it called Alluvium. So yes looking for a new set of tires for these wheels as the stock wheels I just had sealant put in them and can see taking them off those rims. I have read threads where people run a lets say 700 x 36 on the rear and maybe a more smoother tire and then a 700 x 40 tire on the front for grip.

I need some wheel suggestion for all around riding. I really don't have any sources of where to get good discounts on gravel tires either.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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chas

For a light weight tire, I like the 40mm Maxxis Rambler.  Some tires (Schwalbe, Continental) put a liner in their tires so they can hold air without sealant.  Weight wise, that seems a little silly (unless you are the “no maintenance” type) as it puts the weight of the tube back into the tire, and then add sealant to that.  I can’t say the tire is a lot different than a 40mm G-one though.

As I have 2 wheelset, I have a set of light wheels with 32mm slicks on them, and then normal set of wheels with 40mm ramblers.  In the winter (or extreme conditions) I’ll put a 50mm Thunder burt on the front for extra flotation and cushion.

Personally, I wouldn’t go below 40mm rear unless its really smooth.  That said, 6 months of the year our gravel is smoother than our asphalt, lol. 

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Zurichman
chas wrote:

For a light weight tire, I like the 40mm Maxxis Rambler.  Some tires (Schwalbe, Continental) put a liner in their tires so they can hold air without sealant.  Weight wise, that seems a little silly (unless you are the “no maintenance” type) as it puts the weight of the tube back into the tire, and then add sealant to that.  I can’t say the tire is a lot different than a 40mm G-one though.

As I have 2 wheelset, I have a set of light wheels with 32mm slicks on them, and then normal set of wheels with 40mm ramblers.  In the winter (or extreme conditions) I’ll put a 50mm Thunder burt on the front for extra flotation and cushion.

Personally, I wouldn’t go below 40mm rear unless its really smooth.  That said, 6 months of the year our gravel is smoother than our asphalt, lol. 



Chas thanks for that reply. I guess we are talking about the 120 tpi instead of the 60 tpi right?


Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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Zurichman
ttps:// granfondo-cycling.com/the-best-gravel-tire/2/ Chas I just came across this. Gran Fondo mag must have tested tires with riders in 2018. There best tire they felt from the riders review was the WTB Riddler TCS(fast rolling light) in 700 x 37. They didn't really say if the tire measured more than 700 x 37 on rims. Have you ever heard of this tire or have you or anybody else ridden this tire. Is your suggestion also to always stick with a 700 x 40 mm tire? I just called one of my local(LBS) shops Seems the Rambler has been re[placed by Ravager. I did see that Jenson looks like the best only prices for $51.20 for the what they still call the Rambler. 

Thanks
Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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clarksonxc
Zman the 37mm Riddler came on my 2017 Warbird, and I would say it's a really good all around or general purpose tire.  Not exceptionally good or poor in any aspect; medium traction, medium weight, medium rolling resistance, medium flat protection, and so on....
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Zurichman
clarksonxc wrote:
Zman the 37mm Riddler came on my 2017 Warbird, and I would say it's a really good all around or general purpose tire.  Not exceptionally good or poor in any aspect; medium traction, medium weight, medium rolling resistance, medium flat protection, and so on....


Thanks for that info I ordered a pair from REI.

Zman 
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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