allroader
I'm working on a custom gravel/adventure bike and frame, and I would like to use a clutch rear derailleur in ultimately a 30/46 or 30/44 front chainring/derailleur 2x11 setup. Basically I would like to get the benefits of the clutch mech in a gravel gearing.

I can always just run an Ultegra or 105 setup, but what are my options to try and integrate the clutch mech?

It looks like I can go DI2 (which I'm thinking of for the shifting benefits anyway), but I would have to use an XT/XTR FD which may not fit due to chainline. Also, would it shift the higher 14T or 16T front capacity needed (XTR FD-M9020 is 10T spec)?

SRAM appears to be a potentially nice hack, but can the Rival and Force clutch derailleurs (1x11) be used with the double chainring? Spec says no, but can it be done anyway?




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shiggy
allroader wrote:
I'm working on a custom gravel/adventure bike and frame, and I would like to use a clutch rear derailleur in ultimately a 30/46 or 30/44 front chainring/derailleur 2x11 setup. Basically I would like to get the benefits of the clutch mech in a gravel gearing.

I can always just run an Ultegra or 105 setup, but what are my options to try and integrate the clutch mech?

It looks like I can go DI2 (which I'm thinking of for the shifting benefits anyway), but I would have to use an XT/XTR FD which may not fit due to chainline. Also, would it shift the higher 14T or 16T front capacity needed (XTR FD-M9020 is 10T spec)?

SRAM appears to be a potentially nice hack, but can the Rival and Force clutch derailleurs (1x11) be used with the double chainring? Spec says no, but can it be done anyway?






SRAM's 1x RDs can not be used with multiple chainrings because they are not slant parallelogram. The jockey pulley (top) follows the cassette shape via chain length change as it shifts. If used with multi front rings, the cog to pulley distance would change with the front shifts, making rear shifts poor to impossible.

IME the clutch is not needed. I have yet to drop the chain and have little chain slap with my 44/30x11-34 105 derailleurs setup. Have descended at speed many roads most riders would want a mtb for. Even had my front bag (Rando style handlebar bar on a fork rack) bounce completely off its mounts several times with the chain staying firmly in place.

When Shimano introduced the first clutched RD at Sea Otter I asked the tech rep "So it works like derailleurs before the Light Action?"
"Pretty much", he said.
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Mudge
I bought a GX 10sp Exact Actuation rear derailleur to do exactly what you're trying to do.

I couldn't make it work, though because of the cable routing on my Crux coming out of the seat stay just above the dropout, and the routing for the derailleur comes in from the front, mtb style, not the rear, road style.

If you have a frame where the cable routes along the chain stay like any of the exposed cable routing designs, you could run housing directly from the cable stop to the derailleur without the big 'roadie' loop in the housing.

As you might could guess, mine is FS since it won't work on my frame.
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allroader
Thanks for confirmation on the SRAM Rival/Force. I thought that was the case that it could not be used with a double chainring even if in a hack.

I am running 105 on my current gravel bike also with no problem. The custom frame that I am designing is meant to handle the really rugged stuff (think Hilly Billy and worse), so I wanted to try and have the option to run a clutch derailleur if should provide a benefit. 

I looked into the GX, but I'm really hooked on 2x11. It's great for the do everything GG with long flat gravel and long steep hills too. I prefer running 11x32 with finer gear resolution than the big 1x11 cassettes.
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DrSpoke
I've got an Ultegra 2x11 bike (50/34) and have had numerous dropped chains.  Usually it bounces off the bottom of the chainring as opposed to during a FD shift.  Like you, I was planning to convert to Di2 but am concerned that I would get similar results with an Ultegra Di2 RD.  I've also considered starting w/Ultegra Di2 and converting to XT Di2 when it comes out later this year.  Lately though I've been considering staying mechanical and using either an XT or XTR RD w/a Wolftooth Tanpan.  http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/accessories/products/tanpan

BTW, the SRAM Force1 on my other bike has been faultless - and quiet.
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DrSpoke
This article is a little dated but may still be relevant:

http://www.cxmagazine.com/mechanical-monday-xtr-mountain-bike-di2-road-drivetrain-shifters

Or for the more resourceful among us:

http://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ultegra-di2-clutch-derailleur-1x-diy-single-chainring

A couple of recent articles though perhaps not so relevant to your needs:

http://www.cxmagazine.com/mechanical-mondays-low-gear-on-cyclocross-bikes-for-gravel-adventure-rides

http://www.cxmagazine.com/mechanical-monday-lower-gears-gravel-rides-races-bicycle-drivetrain-gearing

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drwelby
NM.
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Jim_H
I just set up a 2x11 Ultegra FD/Shifters and 50/34 crankset and a Shimano M8000 11-42 cassete and XT M8000 clutch rear derailleur.

I used the wolftooth Tan Pan (linked in a post above) and a Goatlink derailleur mount extender.

The system works really well.  I still have some dialing in to do, but I think once it's all done, I'll have about 90%-95% of the shift quality of an Ultegra 6800 mechanical system, which I can live with considering the benefits.

There are a couple of gotchas to be careful of.

You have to be mindful of your RD cable loop, especially if you have internal cable routing.  The tanpan comes in two versions... well, i should say it can be mounted in two ways.  One, is literally directly  mounted to the RD.  I couldn't manage this because the RD cable loop was way too tight coming out of the rear chainstay on the Norco Search carbon.   

The second option, is to use an optional 'inline adapter'.  This is basically a cable housing ferrule that allows you to put the tanpan in line anywhere in the system.  Mine is hanging directly under my handlebars.   

It's not the cleanest looking setup, but it's not terribly expensive (unless you count the cost of the RD and Cassette), and, at least in my case, it works well enough.

I need to put some miles on it in some technical areas to see how it performs under duress, but I rode it on my daily commute the last two days, and it works really well.

Oh, and another gotcha, and this shouldn't come as a surprise.  With the chain long enough to not sag on the 34/11, it's a *really* tight squeeze getting onto the 53/42 (that's a LOT of chain).  In otherwords, don't expect that crosschain setup to be usable.  It might be, but it puts a lot of tension on the clutch and RD.

I'll try to post some pictures of the set up when I get the bike out again.
 

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Jim_H

Update:

Here are some pictures. Note that this is with a SRAM PG1170 11-36 cassette (I hadn't recieved the Shimano 11-42 yet, so I used this to set up the TanPan).

The M8000 Shadow Clutch RD and the Goatlink Extender. Note the exit location of the RD shift cable on the chainstay. It's too close to the RD to allow you to mount the TanPan back there.

And the Tan Pan inline setup hanging under the bars.

Here is a close-up of the TanPan. You just thread it around the inner ring, through the small hole, and around the outer ring, then through the rest of the cable housing. It's a ball-bearing disc, and it doesn't seem to introduce any noticeable friction into the shifting.

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DrSpoke
^ Nicely done!
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Bigonabianchi
Hi peeps [smile]

That set up above with the Tanpan and 11 speed ultegra shifters is very close to what I'm fitting right now to my road bike. How did your set up work out over longer tougher rides eventually? Any issues?

I'm fitting an M8000 11-40 cassette, M8000 Long cage RD, Tanpan inline, Ultegra 6800 11 speed shifters (no Di2). Using polymer coated ultegra cable, with the Tanpan located similar to yours, only closer to where the cable enters my downtube.

That tiny tanpan screw that tightens down on the cable looks frail to me, seems a lot is hanging on that little screw!

I have the wolf tooth road link as well, but will try fitting without it first, if it's troublesome I'll insert it.

Really interested to hear how your tanpan set up worked over the longer term on longer tougher rides etc. It's easy on a workstand I think, but this has to work for me trouble free on LOOOONG back to back rides in all conditions soon. Any comments very welcome please [smile] Thanks [smile]
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teoblar
If your cable runs are getting tight, you might find some relief with the metal beaded type housings.  You can run them in tighter loops without hindering the cable movement.  Yokozuna and Jagwire make sets, to name a few.

I recall my Crux being a pain to set up because of the same issue.
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crapknees
I put a XTR M8000 with Wolftooth TanPan on my Jamis Renegade Expert in order to run a 11-40 cassette.

Also in my research prior to Dirty Kanzaa 200 and LandRun 100 I determined that most of the rear derailleur failures in bad conditions were on non-clutch derailleurs.  The XTR and Tanpan survived both races for me and continue to work great.
14883230643911805221689.jpg 
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