droitaubut Show full post »
TonyM
Yepp that's why I will go for the 22mm inner width from DT in 700C (38 or 40mm tires) and for the 22.5mm inner width (2.1" tires) for the the DT in 650B.

As for the crankset/ gearing it is always a problem for the top premium groups as they are intended for the racers but at the end many people with money buy these (and don't necessarily have the fitness). I see the same in road bikes where many people should rather use an endurance bike instead of their pricey F10/ C60 etc...


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TonyM
--> New wheels for gravel from DT Swiss (all with 24mm inner width)

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/


=>> Here all the data concerning aero, rolling resistance, traction, comfort etc...
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/gravel


And here the 3 wheel sets, available in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5".

GRC 1400 SPLINE® 42 (carbon): in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/grc-1400-spline/grc-1400-spline-42/
From 1545 g

GR 1600 SPLINE® 25: in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/gr-1600-spline/gr-1600-spline-25/
From 1727 g

G 1800 SPLINE® 25:  in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/g-1800-spline/g-1800-spline-25/
From 1806 g
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droitaubut
TonyM wrote:
--> New wheels for gravel from DT Swiss (all with 24mm inner width)

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/


=>> Here all the data concerning aero, rolling resistance, traction, comfort etc...
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/gravel


And here the 3 wheel sets, available in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5".

GRC 1400 SPLINE® 42 (carbon): in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/grc-1400-spline/grc-1400-spline-42/
From 1545 g

GR 1600 SPLINE® 25: in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/gr-1600-spline/gr-1600-spline-25/
From 1727 g

G 1800 SPLINE® 25:  in 700C/29" and 650B/27.5"
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-road/gravel/g-1800-spline/g-1800-spline-25/
From 1806 g


From what I see the GR 1600 SPLINE will be a great alternative compared to Easton AX wheels, slightly more budget friendly, bombproof quality, what more do you want? With 24 interal 650b, you can run tyres from 40-60mm confidently. In 700c however, it's really 35+ mm, so depends if you want to run smaller tyres. But this is a great addition to the market for sure.
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TonyM
Yes, they surely are bombproof quality, especially with their 240/350 ratchet hubs.

Looking at the recommendation of DT Swiss the 24mm internal are best for 32mm to 50mm. For 2.1" tires, DT Swiss recommends 25 to 33mm inner width.


I think I will use these 24mm gravel wheels for my 700C setup with 38/40mm tires.

For my 27.5"/650B setup with 2.1 tires I will most likely look at their XMC/XM range with 30mm inner width.
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droitaubut
TonyM wrote:
Yes, they surely are bombproof quality, especially with their 240/350 ratchet hubs.

Looking at the recommendation of DT Swiss the 24mm internal are best for 32mm to 50mm. For 2.1" tires, DT Swiss recommends 25 to 33mm inner width.


I think I will use these 24mm gravel wheels for my 700C setup with 38/40mm tires.

For my 27.5"/650B setup with 2.1 tires I will most likely look at their XMC/XM range with 30mm inner width.


There are many charts on inner rim width, tyre width compatiblity. I think the WTB one is good. There are always overgeneralisations as bead width and tyre profile also matters.

https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart

If you want to run 42mm wide 650b resolutes, up to 2.35 inch tyres, 25mm inner width seems to be the way to go. However, 24 or 26 will just work fine as well. But as you can see s 2.1inch/54mm tyre, pairing with 33mm is not the most logical idea. I think DT Swiss has indeed 25mm internals, Easton 27 is a rim as well. I think this DT Swiss wheels has a great price/quality value point. 

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-mtb/all-mountain/m-1700-spline/m-1700-spline-25/

If you combine this with the 22.5mm internal wheels for 700c, you could run anything from 30-60mm without issues. And you wouldn't even need the new gravel wheels. However the new 24mm internal gravel wheels could perhaps be more focused on comfort, and also have a higher system weight recommendation which may mean a bit more durability and suited better to bikepacking. In 700c it's just a question, what's the narrowest tyre you want to run. Do you want to run a G-one speed in 30mm? In that case 24mm internal is a bit wide, if you like that tyre in 35mm, I believe 24mm will help spread the tyre a bit better. And if you want to run 45mm riddlers, the 24mm will be a vast improvement over the 22.5. But wouldn't recommend going bigger than 27mm internal if you want to run 2.1 inch tyres.
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BubbaS
I'm running 35c g-ones on a 24 mm internal bontrager aeolus 3V carbon rim with no issues. They end up being slightly wider than on the 19mm internal rim. No issues with tires coming off rims, sidewall slashes etc.

BS
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droitaubut
BubbaS wrote:
I'm running 35c g-ones on a 24 mm internal bontrager aeolus 3V carbon rim with no issues. They end up being slightly wider than on the 19mm internal rim. No issues with tires coming off rims, sidewall slashes etc.

BS


Yeah, think that set-up is about as perfect as it can get. Which type of G-ones?
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BubbaS
G-one all round, they seem to work well on hard pack/ rough pavement and cope with a bit of mud. One scratch on the carbon rim, last weekend rocks were pinging off of them somewhat regularly. The scratch is well away from the bead so nothing to do with the tire not protecting the rim, just loose rocky riding. 

BS
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TonyM
droitaubut wrote:


There are many charts on inner rim width, tyre width compatiblity. I think the WTB one is good. There are always overgeneralisations as bead width and tyre profile also matters.

https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart

If you want to run 42mm wide 650b resolutes, up to 2.35 inch tyres, 25mm inner width seems to be the way to go. However, 24 or 26 will just work fine as well. But as you can see s 2.1inch/54mm tyre, pairing with 33mm is not the most logical idea. I think DT Swiss has indeed 25mm internals, Easton 27 is a rim as well. I think this DT Swiss wheels has a great price/quality value point. 

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/wheels-mtb/all-mountain/m-1700-spline/m-1700-spline-25/

If you combine this with the 22.5mm internal wheels for 700c, you could run anything from 30-60mm without issues. And you wouldn't even need the new gravel wheels. However the new 24mm internal gravel wheels could perhaps be more focused on comfort, and also have a higher system weight recommendation which may mean a bit more durability and suited better to bikepacking. In 700c it's just a question, what's the narrowest tyre you want to run. Do you want to run a G-one speed in 30mm? In that case 24mm internal is a bit wide, if you like that tyre in 35mm, I believe 24mm will help spread the tyre a bit better. And if you want to run 45mm riddlers, the 24mm will be a vast improvement over the 22.5. But wouldn't recommend going bigger than 27mm internal if you want to run 2.1 inch tyres.



I plan to run 700C with 38mm tires (maybe 35 or 40 also but never less than 35mm) and 650B with 2.1 tires.

24mm for the 700C and 35-40mm tires seems to be fine indeed.
The GR are good. The GRC are more for the aero advantage IMHO.
I originally was looking at their CX wheels but now with their gravel specific wheels with 24mm this is a better option.

For the 650B with 2.1" tires, that's where I am not sure at that point which route to go.

DT Swiss recommends 25mm to 33mm:
https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net/uploads/WXMC120AEIXCA05040/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf

Their gravel wheels have 24mm.

Their XC wheels in 27.5" have 22.5 or 25mm.
However their lightest XRC are only 22.5mm.

For their All mountain the inner width increased with 25mm to even 40mm!
However their lightest wheels XMC are 30mm.

So basically if you want the lightest 650B wheels it is either 24mm, 22.5mm or 30mm.
The XRC are the lightest (-230g vs. the GRC) but the GRC have the aero advantage (which may not be that useful for XC profiles)





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droitaubut
TonyM wrote:



I plan to run 700C with 38mm tires (maybe 35 or 40 also but never less than 35mm) and 650B with 2.1 tires.

24mm for the 700C and 35-40mm tires seems to be fine indeed.
The GR are good. The GRC are more for the aero advantage IMHO.
I originally was looking at their CX wheels but now with their gravel specific wheels with 24mm this is a better option.

For the 650B with 2.1" tires, that's where I am not sure at that point which route to go.

DT Swiss recommends 25mm to 33mm:
https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net/uploads/WXMC120AEIXCA05040/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf

Their gravel wheels have 24mm.

Their XC wheels in 27.5" have 22.5 or 25mm.
However their lightest XRC are only 22.5mm.

For their All mountain the inner width increased with 25mm to even 40mm!
However their lightest wheels XMC are 30mm.

So basically if you want the lightest 650B wheels it is either 24mm, 22.5mm or 30mm.
The XRC are the lightest (-230g vs. the GRC) but the GRC have the aero advantage (which may not be that useful for XC profiles)

Okay, I just think the recommendations of DT Swiss are a bit extreme, and not really the industry standard. But if you think weight is really important, it will always be very expensive carbon wheels above 2k USD. If money no object and somehow you favor (in my opinion unnecessary light rims) then this would be the choice: https://www.enve.com/en/products/g27/ Internal width of 27. I think 2.1 tyres would fit well on it, but not so sure about Resolutes of 42mm wide. To cover all bases perfectly, I still think 25mm internal is the way to go. https://www.enve.com/en/products/m525/ This is a mountain bike wheelset with 25mm internal. DT Swiss does have wheelsets for MTB with 25mm internal as well. Personally I would just choose the midlevel newly released GR DT Swiss series with 24mm internal, that 1mm difference won't be an issue at all, and if the max you want to ride is 2.1inch it's even slightly better than 25mm, as if may fit 42mm 650b better.





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TonyM
I was planing to use the 650B for 2.1” tires.

What would be the reason to use 42mm tires on 650B compared to 700C?
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droitaubut
TonyM wrote:
I was planing to use the 650B for 2.1” tires.

What would be the reason to use 42mm tires on 650B compared to 700C?


Some people just because they like the specific tyre (the resolute is one of the most popular tyres) and have a wheel that suits it. And another reason is that the wheel diameter is preferred by some people, It's very close to a 700c*23mm, some people could like the feel of a certain diameter of (tyre+wheel) combo.
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chas
TonyM wrote:

What would be the reason to use 42mm tires on 650B compared to 700C?


seems to me on the same tire, 650b will lower your BB a lot (and adversely impact the approach angle).   Gravel bikes are not designed for 23mm tires, other wise their BB would not be so low.   Could work for small riders on small frames - to reduce toe overlap.
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droitaubut
chas wrote:


seems to me on the same tire, 650b will lower your BB a lot (and adversely impact the approach angle).   Gravel bikes are not designed for 23mm tires, other wise their BB would not be so low.   Could work for small riders on small frames - to reduce toe overlap.  


Well actually a lot of bikes are designed to go with 650b as well as 700c wheels. If you realize a 650b * 47mm tyre is about equal to a 700c * 28mm tyre, you see that 28 is not actually that much different from 23. And it also shows you how massive the diameter must be of a Riddler 45 mm in 700c.
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pushstart
droitaubut wrote:

Well actually a lot of bikes are designed to go with 650b as well as 700c wheels. If you realize a 650b * 47mm tyre is about equal to a 700c * 28mm tyre, you see that 28 is not actually that much different from 23.


I think that was chas' point. A lot of bikes will fit 650bx47 in addition to 700x??, but if it is a gravel bike it can't really be *designed* for either wheel size [for gravel] without the BB being too tall in 700c configuration or too low in 650b configuration -- and similarly HT too steep or too slack.  Now, you could have a road+ bike designed for either/both since the wheel+tire diameters there work out nicely.
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droitaubut
pushstart wrote:


I think that was chas' point. A lot of bikes will fit 650bx47 in addition to 700x??, but if it is a gravel bike it can't really be *designed* for either wheel size [for gravel] without the BB being too tall in 700c configuration or too low in 650b configuration -- and similarly HT too steep or too slack.  Now, you could have a road+ bike designed for either/both since the wheel+tire diameters there work out nicely.


Well I think there is a compromise, but as long as diameters don't differ too much I don't really see a big problem.
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chas
droitaubut wrote:


Well actually a lot of bikes are designed to go with 650b as well as 700c wheels. If you realize a 650b * 47mm tyre is about equal to a 700c * 28mm tyre, you see that 28 is not actually that much different from 23. And it also shows you how massive the diameter must be of a Riddler 45 mm in 700c.


True, but that was not the question.


The questions was:
"What would be the reason to use 42mm tires on 650B compared to 700C?"

Sure, you can swap between 700x28 to 650bx47, but not 700x42 to 650bx42 (not effectively).  Personally, I don't have any problems with a "high" bottom bracket (I have up to 50mm).  But I've been thrown off bikes with too low of a bottom bracket. 

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