tomh

I know this topic has been discussed a lot (here: http://ridinggravel.com/forum/?p=post%2Fdo-it-all-wheelset-for-700x28-and-700x40-tires-9943303%3Fpid%3D1307994907)

But still...I'm having sleepless nights deciding. I run 35mm Gravelking SK now - and don't plan to go wider than 40. But I'd like to have the option of running 28mm tires as well. Or at least 30mm.

- DT Swiss ER 1600 23 (20mm internal, 23mm deep, 1638g, rim weight: 450g, hub DT 350)

-DT Swiss CR 1600 25 (22mm int., 25mm deep, 1682g, rim weight: 485g, hub DT 350)

-Hunt Gravel 4 Season (20mm internal, 24mm deep, 1627g, rim? novatec hub...) 

-custom alloy build by SLOWBUILD with DT Swiss Hub 350:
eg. RR521 rim by DT swiss (20mm int., DT Swiss hub 350, rim weight: 520gr, set should be under 1700g)

-or wait for GRX Shimano wheelset...

Really can't decide. Ride around 60% road with this bike and 40% forest/gravel roads.
Anybody got experience with some of the wheelsets?

THANKS!

Quote 0 0
droitaubut
tomh wrote:

I know this topic has been discussed a lot (here: http://ridinggravel.com/forum/?p=post%2Fdo-it-all-wheelset-for-700x28-and-700x40-tires-9943303%3Fpid%3D1307994907)

But still...I'm having sleepless nights deciding. I run 35mm Gravelking SK now - and don't plan to go wider than 40. But I'd like to have the option of running 28mm tires as well. Or at least 30mm.

- DT Swiss ER 1600 23 (20mm internal, 23mm deep, 1638g, rim weight: 450g, hub DT 350)

-DT Swiss CR 1600 25 (22mm int., 25mm deep, 1682g, rim weight: 485g, hub DT 350)

-Hunt Gravel 4 Season (20mm internal, 24mm deep, 1627g, rim? novatec hub...) 

-custom alloy build by SLOWBUILD with DT Swiss Hub 350:
eg. RR521 rim by DT swiss (20mm int., DT Swiss hub 350, rim weight: 520gr, set should be under 1700g)

-or wait for GRX Shimano wheelset...

Really can't decide. Ride around 60% road with this bike and 40% forest/gravel roads.
Anybody got experience with some of the wheelsets?

THANKS!

tomh wrote:

I know this topic has been discussed a lot (here: http://ridinggravel.com/forum/?p=post%2Fdo-it-all-wheelset-for-700x28-and-700x40-tires-9943303%3Fpid%3D1307994907)

But still...I'm having sleepless nights deciding. I run 35mm Gravelking SK now - and don't plan to go wider than 40. But I'd like to have the option of running 28mm tires as well. Or at least 30mm.

- DT Swiss ER 1600 23 (20mm internal, 23mm deep, 1638g, rim weight: 450g, hub DT 350)

-DT Swiss CR 1600 25 (22mm int., 25mm deep, 1682g, rim weight: 485g, hub DT 350)

-Hunt Gravel 4 Season (20mm internal, 24mm deep, 1627g, rim? novatec hub...) 

-custom alloy build by SLOWBUILD with DT Swiss Hub 350:
eg. RR521 rim by DT swiss (20mm int., DT Swiss hub 350, rim weight: 520gr, set should be under 1700g)

-or wait for GRX Shimano wheelset...

Really can't decide. Ride around 60% road with this bike and 40% forest/gravel roads.
Anybody got experience with some of the wheelsets?

THANKS!



It's very simple, both can handle 40mm, 22mm internal perhaps a bit better, but both can. 28 However, I wouldn't do with 22mm internal gravel/cross wheels. So it's clear, go for the 20mm internal, these will be best 30-35mm, but 28 and 40 should also still work.
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tomh
Thank you - so if I would compromise and say 30mm min-the 22 should be ok? Why do ENVE recommend 25c tires for their 21mm internal carbon rim?!
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droitaubut
tomh wrote:
Thank you - so if I would compromise and say 30mm min-the 22 should be ok? Why do ENVE recommend 25c tires for their 21mm internal carbon rim?!


I think these rims are designed differently, for road and aero purposes. If you look at aero, you want something totally different also. You achieve optimal aero gains when measured tyre width on rim is sligthly (1-2mm) narrower than external rim widht. A good example for this are the Enve 3.4 AR and Enve 4.5 AR wheels, which have external rim with over 30mm, and are aero optimised for 28mm tyres, which may then be 28-30mm on the rim measured. I think for the cross, gravel type of wheels, you could likely safely run a 30mm G-one speed or G-one allround on the 22mm internal rim widht yes, for 28mm, I am a bit unsure, it sounds like it could or couldnt work.
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tomh
Thanks. Ah thought so. Do you I think I would notice a difference running 35mm tires on a 20mm or 22mm internal rim? Maybe not as secure on the 20mm?
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LewisQC
tomh wrote:
Thanks. Ah thought so. Do you I think I would notice a difference running 35mm tires on a 20mm or 22mm internal rim? Maybe not as secure on the 20mm?

You might be able to tell a difference if you could swap from one to another but 20mm is ok for tire up to 40c without a problem. Few years ago, 19-20mm was consider wide... I rode my mtb for years with 2.35" on 19mm inner width rims... I went thru same hesitation last year and went with 20mm inner width to save some weight (Dt Swiss ER 1400). I had no problem running GP 5000 32mm tubeless, GK slick 38 and even maxis refuse 40c. If you mainly ride gravel, want mostly run bigger tire (38-40c) and weight is similar (seems to be in builds you listed above) 22mm would be my choice... For 28 to 35-40issh 20mm will be ok. 

I really like my GP5000 on my ER 1400 and might eventually buy a CR1600 for 38-40c so I could swap between wheelset. 
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tomh
Thanks! I kind of like the 25mm rims of the CR 1600 25. And: I have to ask myself if I REALLY need the ability to run 28s...maybe it would be wiser to buy 22mm (since I already got the 35mm Panaracer and love them) and then later buy a lightweight wheelset for 28mm and swap...
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droitaubut
tomh wrote:
Thanks. Ah thought so. Do you I think I would notice a difference running 35mm tires on a 20mm or 22mm internal rim? Maybe not as secure on the 20mm?


I think both would work great actually, but if you look at 40-45c tyres, I think 22 inner rim width will be noticeably better supporting the tyres.
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droitaubut
tomh wrote:
Thanks! I kind of like the 25mm rims of the CR 1600 25. And: I have to ask myself if I REALLY need the ability to run 28s...maybe it would be wiser to buy 22mm (since I already got the 35mm Panaracer and love them) and then later buy a lightweight wheelset for 28mm and swap...


Rolling resistance wise, 28 or 30 mm won't hardly be different, only reason you may want to run 28 instead of 30 are more slick tyre options, and very small aero benefits. I think find a wheelset which work well from 30mm tyres onwards, G-one speed tubeless would be a good thing, GP5000 tubeless in 32 is also totally perfect. So actually I would opt for 22mm, as you could run GP5000 tubeless 32mm as well as G-one speed tubeless 30mm without any problems, and then you have the bonus that 38-45mm tyres will be better on 22mm as well. To me an easy choice between those two inner rim widths. However if you compare to the new DT swiss 25mm rims (which are 24mm internal, 25mm heigth, so in this story should be called 24mm rims), then it's not so good to run g-one speed 30 or GP5000 32. Finally my verdict is that if you want to have 1 wheelset to cover all, 22mm is best. If you want two wheelsets, go for 20mm internal and 24mm internal. 20 will be best 28-35mm, 24mm best 40-45mm, and both could do 35-40 well.
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tomh
DT Swiss just wrote back. They say it's absolutely no problem running 28 tires on their 22mm rims?!... Let's see. Was going to buy the 22s anyway and maybe try a G-One or GP5000 32 as @droitaubut suggested...
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HollyBoni
tomh wrote:
DT Swiss just wrote back. They say it's absolutely no problem running 28 tires on their 22mm rims?!... Let's see. Was going to buy the 22s anyway and maybe try a G-One or GP5000 32 as @droitaubut suggested...
 

Since the GP5000 (and some other great tires) are available in 32mm, personally I don't see a reason in running 28s. 
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tomh
True...I will try the GP5000 32! 
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chas

For me, 22mm is the sweet spot for versatility, width, and weight.  They work great with 40mm tires.

But, I’ve run 28mm Conti 4000s on them (they measure 31mm – super fat) and I’m wearing out the sidewall before I wear out the tread (cord showing).  Granted, I corner pretty hard, but at 50psi the 22mm ID (28mm OD) may be a little narrow.  Super Aero though. Many of my 28mm tires are 4mm narrower than my 4000s (@27mm).  

I’m gonna switch from the 28mm 4000s to the 32mm 5000s.

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tomh
Thanks!! Just ordered the DT Swiss CR 1600 (22mm internal)..looking forward!
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chas
That is what I have.  Good size.

FYI, here is the official ETTRO chart.  Interestingly, it looks like putting a bigger tire on a smaller rim is better than the other way around...
[Untitled_0]

https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/default/files/Untitled_0.png
https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions
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davidm
On the other hand, here is DT Swiss's chart, which is more generous (and informative):

https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net/uploads/RTM04429S28S011292/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf
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tomh
but: it's funny they don't list their actual internal rim widths (e.g. 22mm and 24mm) ðŸ˜… - 28mm seems to be ok with 21mm internal but not with 23mm - but since they told me it's ok with 22mm âœŒ
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chas
or while we are posting charts, here is Enve's take:
21, 23, 25, 27mm rims (the latter is 650b). 
https://gravelcyclist.com/bicycle-tech/gravel-bike-tyre-tire-pressure-guidelines-by-enve-composites/

@davidm - thanks, that chart is great.  
@tomh - this chart implies that 28mm is too narrow for 23mm, but not too narrow for 25mID.  LOL
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Spreader
- DT Swiss ER 1600 23 (20mm internal, 23mm deep, 1638g, rim weight: 450g, hub DT 350)

-DT Swiss CR 1600 25 (22mm int., 25mm deep, 1682g, rim weight: 485g, hub DT 350)

ER1600 23 uses rr421
CR1600 23 uses r500

Have you thought about the r470 (20mm inner @450g? Much more economical than the rr421 and similar #s. r470 doesn’t have asymmetrical drilling’s and is sleeved instead of welded.

I’m also looking at a “general” light duty gravel build. I’ve also considered the following semi-aero aluminums that are just taller versions:

rr511 18mm inner @490g
rr521 20mm inner @520g

Edit:
you actually mentioned that here:
-custom alloy build by SLOWBUILD with DT Swiss Hub 350:
eg. RR521 rim by DT swiss (20mm int., DT Swiss hub 350, rim weight: 520gr, set should be under 1700g)

But it I believe your weight is way off. I’m looking at 1900g using 24/28, race spokes and brass polyax nipples.
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tomh
went for CR 1600 25 / 22mm internal which uses the RR 481 rim https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/rims/road/cross-road/rr-481/
L wanted 22 internal and 25mm deep at least. Weight is still ok!
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