TonyM
Hi,

I usually ride on dirt roads with a smooth gravel (and 20% road).

I have 2 x 700C wheel sets that I intended to use as follows:

- "Allround": wheelset with the Schwalbe g-one Allround in 38mm.
- "dry day/ fast days": wheelset with the Schwalbe g-one Allround in 35mm.

But would I notice significant difference with the 35mm in terms of speed?
What do you think? Or how would you set the two wheel sets in terms of tires?


Tony
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TonyM
Or would you rather use one 700C wheelset with the Schwalbe g-one allround in 38mm and another 700C wheelset with some tires for the wet days? 
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HollyBoni

You won't notice that much difference, I wouldn't do it. Waste of $ IMO. And as always, wider doesn't automatically mean slower. ðŸ™ƒ

I think you should elaborate a bit more on what you mean by "Allround" and "Dry/Fast". Riding for fun vs racing? Wet vs dry? Etc. 

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Slim
I agree with the above, why have two wheels sets and then have them be nearly the same width and exactly the same tread?

Is 40mm the largest that will fit your bike front and rear?

Are  both rims the same width? Same weights(roughly)? Same aero profile?

I would try and aim for more differentiation.

Here are some potential ideas:

Wet - Dry,
Light - Tough
Smooth - Treaded
Big and grippy  - smaller and aero
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chas
There is, practically speaking, no difference between your two tire/wheelsets.  

Personally, I run 32mm slicks for fast road rides, and a 40mm gravel tire like the G-One you mentioned.  
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TonyM
The two 700C wheelsets have 20mm and 24mm inner width.
The frame accepts 700c from 35mm to 46mm tires.

I don’t intend to use my gravel bike as a road bike as I have a road bike for that.

Usual gravel ride would be 80% smooth gravel or dirt road and 20% road.
Weather condition would be dry and hot weather or rain the day before and semi wet dirt roads/ gravel.

As I have ordered some G-one Allround in 38mm and based on your feedbacks I could use these on the 20mm wheelset and maybe have the second wheelset (24mm) for something bigger/ comfortable/grippier as I can go up to 46mm tires?

or other way to put the 38mm g-one on the 24mm wheelset and use the 20mm wheelset for something faster like a 32mm for dirt roads/ gravel? Or is that not enough width?
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clarksonxc
I think something like a 45mm/35mm or maybe 38mm/32mm combination would give you more of the range to make the dual setup worthwhile.  Like the 45mm set for rougher or mostly gravel rides, and the 35mm set for smoother gravel or pavement heavy rides.  Basically just put more of a difference of width between the two wheelsets to make it worthwhile.  38mm/35mm, even if slick/knobby, isn't that much of a difference.  
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HollyBoni

TonyM wrote:
or other way to put the 38mm g-one on the 24mm wheelset and use the 20mm wheelset for something faster like a 32mm for dirt roads/ gravel? Or is that not enough width?


Any reason why you think a narrower tyre will be faster for offroad riding? Seriously not trying to be a smartass, but my experience has been the exact opposite. If you look around, pretty much every offroad discipline (including gravel) has been moving to wider tyres for a while now. I have GravelKing SKs in 40mm and 32mm. With the 32s I can't run anywhere near as low pressures as I can with the 40s, which results in a much more jarring ride, and much less speed on any rough surface. 

If you don't do pavement only rides on your gravel bike, and unless you want to ride both in dry weather and in a downpour and/or big mud, i'd think about running just one wheelset with an intermediate tyre like the G-One Allrounds that you ordered. For the riding you've described so far, I don't really see the need for two wheelsets and two different tyres. Just my opinion. Playing around with tyres is certainly fun tho (but can be a bit $$$). Ã°Å¸â„¢Æ’

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dangle
chas wrote:
There is, practically speaking, no difference between your two tire/wheelsets.  

Personally, I run 32mm slicks for fast road rides, and a 40mm gravel tire like the G-One you mentioned.  


This is exactly what I do for my gravel wheels. The 38 Schwalbe measures a little big. It measured 42 mm on my Stan's (21 mm ID) rims. Then I have Specialized Roubaix 30/32 tires on another pair of those same rims. They stretched out to 33/34 mm. The Roubaixs down to <40 psi are surprisingly versatile. I may go to the Schwalbe G One Bite or the new Continental Terra series when it's time to replace the G Ones.

As others said, running a 35 and 38/40 of two identical tires doesn't make sense. You will always be reaching for the 38/40.
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Zurichman
dangle wrote:


This is exactly what I do for my gravel wheels. The 38 Schwalbe measures a little big. It measured 42 mm on my Stan's (21 mm ID) rims. Then I have Specialized Roubaix 30/32 tires on another pair of those same rims. They stretched out to 33/34 mm. The Roubaixs down to <40 psi are surprisingly versatile. I may go to the Schwalbe G One Bite or the new Continental Terra series when it's time to replace the G Ones.

As others said, running a 35 and 38/40 of two identical tires doesn't make sense. You will always be reaching for the 38/40.


Dangle curious as to why you are going to try the Schwalbe G one Bite or new Continental Terra series?

Zman
If it was easy it wouldn't be a memory. You just hope you don't have all your memories in the same ride. been there dun that Zman
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TonyM
HollyBoni wrote:

Any reason why you think a narrower tyre will be faster for offroad riding? Seriously not trying to be a smartass, but my experience has been the exact opposite. If you look around, pretty much every offroad discipline (including gravel) has been moving to wider tyres for a while now. I have GravelKing SKs in 40mm and 32mm. With the 32s I can't run anywhere near as low pressures as I can with the 40s, which results in a much more jarring ride, and much less speed on any rough surface. 

If you don't do pavement only rides on your gravel bike, and unless you want to ride both in dry weather and in a downpour and/or big mud, i'd think about running just one wheelset with an intermediate tyre like the G-One Allrounds that you ordered. For the riding you've described so far, I don't really see the need for two wheelsets and two different tyres. Just my opinion. Playing around with tyres is certainly fun tho (but can be a bit $$$). ÃƒÂ°Ã…¸â„¢Æ’


Thanks for the feedback! I am new to gravel bike (for more than 30 years mostly road bike). Being a roadie and older/ conservative/ old fashioned I suppose this is why I thought that a 32mm would be faster (but less conformable) than a 38mm on gravel.

I don't need to use my two wheel sets but because I am reallocating a new wheelset to a road bike I have a spare wheelset (inner width: 20mm) to use with my gravel bike. I intended to get a 24mm wheel set for the gravel bike anyway (as it seems that the 24mm are the sweet spot for 38-40mm tires). 
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TonyM
clarksonxc wrote:
I think something like a 45mm/35mm or maybe 38mm/32mm combination would give you more of the range to make the dual setup worthwhile.  Like the 45mm set for rougher or mostly gravel rides, and the 35mm set for smoother gravel or pavement heavy rides.  Basically just put more of a difference of width between the two wheelsets to make it worthwhile.  38mm/35mm, even if slick/knobby, isn't that much of a difference.  


As it seems the that the 32mm is more for a pavement ride, a combination 35mm for smooth gravel and 45mm for rough gravel could be interesting indeed.
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TonyM
Thanks guys for your feedback!! 

What do you think about this?

- 1 x wheel set (20mm inner width) with 35mm tires for allround smooth gravel.
Here I am thinking of the Schwalbe G-one in 35mm.
- 1 x wheel set (24mm inner width) with bigger tires (42-45mm) for rougher gravel.
Here I am thinking of the WTB Riddler TCS in 45mm or the WTB Resolute in 42mm.

BUT is the difference between 35mm and 42-45mm a significant difference in terms of comfort?

Or it is better then to have one 700C wheelset w/ 35mm or 38mm tires and one 650B wheelset w/ 2.1" for example?
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HollyBoni

TonyM wrote:


Thanks for the feedback! I am new to gravel bike (for more than 30 years mostly road bike). Being a roadie and older/ conservative/ old fashioned I suppose this is why I thought that a 32mm would be faster (but less conformable) than a 38mm on gravel


We've all been there. ÃƒÂ°Ã…¸â„¢â€š Before making another tyre purchase personally i'd recommend riding the G-Ones that you ordered for a while to gain some experience, and go from there. I'm pretty sure in a short while you'll be thinking about not how narrow, but how wide you could go. I think that happened to most of us (including me). 

As far as I know and in my experience, when riding offroad more bump absorption and a smoother ride usually means faster too. And you also see those road bike tyre rolling resistance tests where they compare tyres from 23 to 28-32, and the biggest tyre comes up on top, but i'm not smart enough to explain that in detail. Ã°Å¸ËœÂ

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owly
TonyM wrote:
Thanks guys for your feedback!! 

Or it is better then to have one 700C wheelset w/ 35mm or 38mm tires and one 650B wheelset w/ 2.1" for example?
 

Not better. Just a different ride. 

A 650b 2.1" is quite a bit slower rolling than a 700x35/38. However you get much more cush in the rougher stuff.  
Whenever I'm on the 700c wheelset now I always miss that extra width even though its faster. 
If you do consider 650b its probably a good idea to test ride a bike with those wheels to see if you like the ride feel before dumping your $$$ on a wheelset.
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J.O/GravelAcademy
I like my tires like I like my women wide and nobby 
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Slim
TonyM wrote:
Thanks guys for your feedback!! 

What do you think about this?

- 1 x wheel set (20mm inner width) with 35mm tires for allround smooth gravel.
Here I am thinking of the Schwalbe G-one in 35mm.
- 1 x wheel set (24mm inner width) with bigger tires (42-45mm) for rougher gravel.
Here I am thinking of the WTB Riddler TCS in 45mm or the WTB Resolute in 42mm.

BUT is the difference between 35mm and 42-45mm a significant difference in terms of comfort?

Or it is better then to have one 700C wheelset w/ 35mm or 38mm tires and one 650B wheelset w/ 2.1" for example?


35 to 45 mm is a big difference. If you also use a tire with more aggressive tread, it really will make a change.but, it sounds like you own the 20mmrims, and not the 24s.

Does your bike accept 650b? How big? 

I would by a 38c G1 for the rear, at higher pressures needed in the rear squirming won’t be a big deal( I run it on a 21mm rim). Then get a 35mm G1 for the front. It will feel more similar in steering feel to the road bikes you are used to.

Then go ride for a while. Check out different events and your own exploration. What do you find? Do you need more float for soft gravel? Traction for and big volume for Singletrack? Just big volume for rocks or roots?
Then you know here you want to go with a second wheel set. Maybe it’s 650b if you want max volume and a lively feel. Maybe it’s 700x50 up front for better rollover. Maybe it’s aero rims for 35mm tires.

Those max tire sizes, are those your own, measured numbers? Front and back? Most bikes have a lot of room up front.
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TonyM
Slim wrote:


35 to 45 mm is a big difference. If you also use a tire with more aggressive tread, it really will make a change.but, it sounds like you own the 20mmrims, and not the 24s.

Does your bike accept 650b? How big? 

I would by a 38c G1 for the rear, at higher pressures needed in the rear squirming won’t be a big deal( I run it on a 21mm rim). Then get a 35mm G1 for the front. It will feel more similar in steering feel to the road bikes you are used to.

Then go ride for a while. Check out different events and your own exploration. What do you find? Do you need more float for soft gravel? Traction for and big volume for Singletrack? Just big volume for rocks or roots?
Then you know here you want to go with a second wheel set. Maybe it’s 650b if you want max volume and a lively feel. Maybe it’s 700x50 up front for better rollover. Maybe it’s aero rims for 35mm tires.

Those max tire sizes, are those your own, measured numbers? Front and back? Most bikes have a lot of room up front.


Thanks for the feedback!!!

The max tire size (700Cx46 and 650Bx2.4") are the one given by the manufacturer indeed. I have ordered the frame but I don't have it yet.

I have planned to get some 24mm (inner width) wheels as it seems that it is the sweet spot for 35-40mm tires. The wheels that I want (DT Swiss) are however not available at the moment. As soon as my gravel bike frame arrives I will use it first with some 20mm wheels (inner width) that I already own indeed.

The idea to have a different tire width for the front and rear is good! I didn't think about that, I mean in terms of "feel" etc....(as a roadie I use 23mm front and 25mm rear but for aero purpose). I would have thought to have wider in the front in terms of comfort but I would never have thought of going narrower to have the nice feel of a road bike! (yes very newbie in terms of gravel bike...).

I always read that the 650B will offer more comfort etc...but I am not (at the moment) sold on that because I am coming from a 26" hardtail MTB and I would like to have a gravel bike that feel fast. Hence my preferred choice for 700C instead of 650B.

I also plan to ride mostly dirt roads and smooth gravel with my gravel bike. Only 20% max asphalt roads.







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HollyBoni

If you don't even have the frame yet, don't start planning this kind of stuff. Wait until everything arrives, build the bike, and ride it for a while with those 38mm G-Ones. I do this all the time, but the researching on the internet vs riding the bike in real life are two very different things. ÃƒÂ°Ã…¸ËœÂ 

Ride the thing, gain some experience. Without experience you'll just go mad and get lost in all the options and the opinions of different people. You have the G-Ones, and 20mm ID rims work perfectly with 35-40mm tyres. Just ride that combo for a while and then come back. Don't order a second wheelset and tyres blindly. 

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chas
HollyBoni wrote:
And you also see those road bike tyre rolling resistance tests where they compare tyres from 23 to 28-32, and the biggest tyre comes up on top, but i'm not smart enough to explain that in detail. ÃƒÂ°Ã…¸ËœÂ


Basically a small tire has a long skinny contact patch, where at the same pressure a bigger tire has more of a rounded oval.  The long skinny ends up distorting the sidewall more than the rounder contact patch - that distortion (pushing that bulge around the rim) causes the lack of efficiency in the smaller tire. 

Actually, someone actually proved what I have expected for many years.  If you have the same tire drop (the same size bulge) on different sized tires, the rolling resistance is the same.  Its just that you need a lot more pressure in the smaller tire to get the same size bulge (tire drop).

And a tire that can conform to rougher gravel conditions is going to be more efficient (less bouncy) than a higher PSI tire that bounces over everything.
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TonyM
HollyBoni wrote:

If you don't even have the frame yet, don't start planning this kind of stuff. Wait until everything arrives, build the bike, and ride it for a while with those 38mm G-Ones. I do this all the time, but the researching on the internet vs riding the bike in real life are two very different things. ÃƒÆ’ƒÂ°Ã…¸ËœÂ 

Ride the thing, gain some experience. Without experience you'll just go mad and get lost in all the options and the opinions of different people. You have the G-Ones, and 20mm ID rims work perfectly with 35-40mm tyres. Just ride that combo for a while and then come back. Don't order a second wheelset and tyres blindly. 




Yes will do like this! 
Meanwhile I am waiting for all parts to arrive so that I can build my gravel bike.
I have now ordered 38mm and 35mm G-one all-round and will test then these on my 20mm wheels.
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Volsung
If you can legit tell the difference in 3mm you'll be crowned Prom King of Gravel.
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TonyM
Volsung wrote:
If you can legit tell the difference in 3mm you'll be crowned Prom King of Gravel.



That would be cool indeed 

The reason I have now the 35mm and the 38mm is that I ordered first the 38mm thinking of having 32mm for the second wheel set.

But now after all the feedback I have ordered the 35mm for the wheelset and will then see if I want a wheelset with 42-45mm.

I may however test 35mm vs. 38mm and some combo as advised but that's another story....
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HollyBoni
Volsung wrote:
If you can legit tell the difference in 3mm you'll be crowned Prom King of Gravel.


Or Gravelking? Oh wait... 
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